Putin is just a top manager, real power is us.
The company "Russian Aluminum" is the most dynamically developing company in Russia. It is the second largest producer of primary aluminum in the world. The company implements extensive projects not only in Russia, but also abroad, in particular, in the countries of the Asia-Pacific region. President of Rusal - Oleg Deripaska. He also heads his investment company Basic Element. This company is active in the stock markets of metallurgy, wood processing, pulp and paper production, power generation and in many other areas.
Today the Bulletin BEA presents the opinion of OV to its subscribers. Deripaska on the prospects for the development of state power, business, primarily on the prospects of the Asian republics of the former Soviet Union.
Nikolay Asmolov- Oleg Vladimirovich, you are a world famous businessman, one of the permanent Russian participants in Forbes ratings.Products of your enterprises have proven themselves in Western markets. At the same time, you are an active participant in all international initiatives in the Asia-Pacific region. You are the representative of Russia in the Business Advisory Council of the APEC Forum. You are a regular participant in all the visits of Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin to the republics of Central Asia. Not long ago, the President of Russia received you personally at his residence in Bocharov Creek, and you outlined to him your large-scale plans for participating in the metallurgical and energy business of the Asian part of the CIS. How do you explain your interest in Asian projects?
Oleg Deripaska- Large business, like any other, is looking for free niches for its activities. But big business, unlike small and medium ones, is itself tied to the technological chain of state power. First of all - in the financial part, then in the part of the technology of management of society, in political structures, in publicity, and so on. All factors should be taken into account, starting with the mood of society, from the stage of forming power groups, and ending with financial institutions.Without taking this into account, large businesses simply cannot implement their projects.
The Asian region, especially the republics of the post-Soviet space, is now in the process of forming power. And this process takes place with a significant influence of our Russian political power structures. As we now lay - so it will be for many years.
In addition, high-tech enterprises created in Soviet times in Central Asia are now often inefficiently used, some are destroyed or worn out. Their capitalization is low, but the investment prospects are extremely interesting: the cost of labor is low, the lack of qualified personnel can be easily filled from Russia. Energy problems are solved in principle, there are resources.
ON.- Are your plans for investing in Central Asian projects related to the fact that your company’s interesting work has begun with European financial institutions?
O. D.- Indeed, until recently, Russian business structures experienced very strong problems in their work in Europe. But recently the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) and the International Finance Corporation agreed to provide loans to ourcompanies for the development of the Middle Timan bauxite deposit. Now it will be easier to work.
ON.- How did you manage to answer the question about the opacity of the ownership structure of your enterprises?
O. D.- We have provided our European partners with comprehensive information. It turned out that our beneficiaries, whose assets are cross-owned, already own large production assets in Europe. For example, one of our Cypriot firms recently acquired an aluminum plant in Montenegro, is working on the acquisition of a bauxite mine. These are exactly our actions that convince European bankers of our intentions completely. In addition, I plan to place Rusal shares on the western stock exchange, an IPO is scheduled for 2006-2007. This will allow attracting additional money from Western investors, including for Central Asian projects. Technical placement procedures have already begun. To this end, we will continue to optimize the ownership structure of our companies, the value of which today is already $ 12 billion. We no longer need to hide our offshore beneficiaries,since our scheme for optimizing financial sources is already recognized.
ON.- Is Russia no longer asked questions about tolling operations?
O. D.- We answered all the questions. Outside Russia, there will be exactly as much of our money as necessary. And this will not undermine either Russia's investment or credit rating, given the favorable conjuncture on the energy resources extracted in Russia.
ON.- Your finances will play in the CIS?
O. D.- They already play there, as you put it. Ukraine, Armenia, Tajikistan. Further more.
ON.- The region is developing as a result of your actions?
O. D.- Our arrival in Central Asia is already development. For example, we will write off international debts to the poorest Tajikistan, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has already stated this. We will receive the ownership of an aluminum plant. Is it bad? Great deal.
ON.- What actions should the authorities of countries take to make the region attractive for investors?
O. D.- First of all, apart from us, from Russia in the near future, hardly anyone with large projects will come to post-Soviet Central Asia, excluding oil and gas, and this is another factor in our interest in the region.The reason, I hope, is clear - the instability of state and political structures that arose after the collapse of the USSR, and the high risks of investment for Europeans and Americans. True, a special line among potential investors are China and India. Now, as for the actions of state bodies, if you mean it by saying “power”. Actually, these are different things. State bodies need not prevent us from forming such power in the republics of the region, which will effectively manage both the state apparatus and its part of the business and economy. It means to rule the whole society. So far, there are government agencies in the republics of Central Asia, and there is almost no power as the established structure of business, the economy, or political elites. And we are ready to form this power at the points of our interest.
N. A. - What, then, is included in the concept of "power"?
O. D.- First of all, a group of people, the elite, able to make decisions and implement them ... First, it must be cost-effective solutions. Secondly, these should be decisions on the effective management of political structures and the state apparatus. You see, the head of the state apparatus is not necessarily the real leader of the country.He can only use the powers of those who have real power. He may be, for example, a hired manager, responsible for coordinating the actions of various businesses in the region, for publicity of business and the state. The name is irrelevant - the president, the prime minister or in any other way. When I say business, I mean, of course, big business. Small and medium businesses only serve the population and their influence on the technology of power does not exist, and there should not be such an influence. Rather, the government is building a small business in the way it needs at the moment. We in Russia have come a long way in understanding the technologies of power formation. We studied. Our way from all CIS countries is the most successful. It should have been, given the resources of Russia.
ON.- And how can the state's international policy help big business?
O. D.- Business is interested in developing new markets, for example. Or in reducing transaction costs. Here Russia invests the proceeds from the sale of oil funds in government securities of the United States. Thus, we can get good loans in the US banking system on the security of these securities.Insurance of such loans is much cheaper, lower interest on the loan. In addition, when Russia has already invested in the US economy, only extremely short-sighted people in the States may not allow a big businessman from Russia into their territory. We can throw them their green notes if they are very bad. The entire US economy will collapse, and today Russia can do it. So in the near future Rusal will work in America on a full-fledged basis, unless of course some idiot from the FBI starts looking for a Russian mafia in big Russian business again
ON.- President Putin constantly emphasizes your personal role in the Russian economy. Apparently, the Russian power vertical for you is not a secret sealed off. Tell me, how do you assess the capacity, efficiency of the Russian authorities and Russian big business today? And how do you assess, in this regard, the prospects for the integration of the Central Asian republics?
O. D.- The Russian government was finally formed recently, only a year or two. This is the time when inadequate people who have made capital on the “game of roulette” and not on the system approach stopped climbing through the structure of power.Now they are all removed away - who is no longer at all, who sits in the camps, but most of them live with the remnants of money abroad. Someone, of course, is nostalgic.
ON.- Excuse me, is this about Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Gusinsky, Zhivilo and others?
O. D.- Yes, about them and about many others like them. So right now the Russian government, that is, people who are able to make decisions, accept them in such a way as to build a control system for the state apparatus, the mass media, and other elements of mass management. Nobody bothers us now. And good managers for this were found.
ON.- And Putin, I'm sorry, is he a manager? Or he makes decisions?
O. D.- The President of Russia is a kind of top manager, managing the entire country. He is a smart, adequate person, never exceeding the limits of his authority. Noticed how the state apparatus earned in the White House, how the prosecutor's office, the courts, special services, how Russian TV channels and newspapers work? Just brilliant! Everything helps the economy, business, and does not bother us, as it was recently. Under this you can give money, which we do.
ON.- "We" is a big business?
- “We” is the Russian real power.Big business is part of our technology.
ON.- If it's not a secret, who is in your circle?
O. D.- What is the secret? All those who consistently united around the first president of Russia, Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin, who took the liberty of making difficult economic and social decisions. Contrary to the attempts to play on the populism of that time, of which there was a huge amount - both in politics and in the economy of Russia. Most of the time there were just illiterate and just stupid steps ...
ON.- Can you name the names of your circle?
O. D.- The governor of Chukotka Roman Abramovich, I am at your service, too. Head of MDM Bank Andrei Melnichenko. Continue?
ON.- Thanks, I see. And tell me, this power is democratic, how would you rate it?
O. D.- Far more democratic. Unless, of course, discard any tales of democracy, supposedly someone decides something by going to the voting booth. In fact, booths exist so that people have the opportunity to go there - solemnly, to the sound of music. This population should remember for a long time that they had a democratic opportunity to put a tick in any place they want.This is an element of stabilization of social processes. It is absolutely clear that the economy, a large competitive business can not take such a great risk - the arbitrary appointment of managers of the state apparatus, as God will per capita. There is no such arbitrariness in any Western country, and for a while he was at our middle level of government. This greatly hindered the government and business. Now the risk is eliminated, and the frames are settled.
Personnel for governing a country and a state must be carefully selected. The state manager should be, firstly, adequate. First in understanding the priority of business in the state. Secondly, he must be professional. In this case, he has every chance of supporting the authorities, including decent material incentives. But in no case should he take it himself - where he wants and how much he wants. Unfortunately, there are still areas of Russia where it is not fully regulated. The city of Moscow, for example, there was a very good start, with the first mayor, Gavriil Kharitonovich Popov. They misunderstood him, considered him a propagandist of corruption, and the man left. Moscow still lives on its backlog, but the uniform mess prevails in the state apparatus of Moscow,supported by the city authorities. Because of this, a large business in Moscow is impossible - the risk is too great. And at the head of Moscow are inadequate people, greedy, moreover.
I am telling this in order to draw analogies with Central Asia.
In Moscow, we will restore order fairly soon, Luzhkov is one of the last remaining ones who hardly corresponds to his place. In the Asian republics of the CIS, everything is more complicated, but there are much more hopes for constructive management leaders. As for my relationship with Vladimir Putin, they are our closest, warm and friendly. You noticed correctly. Vladimir Vladimirovich is a person who knows how to listen very carefully and memorize, analyze, and translate ideas into real business. I really appreciate him, and I do not regret that in due time our choice fell on him.
ON.- Tell, your business seriously financially stimulates officials. Still, do you somehow avoid corruption charges?
O. D.- Do not laugh. Nowhere in the world are bureaucrats, including law enforcement agencies, judges, living on a meager salary from the budget fund. If a person correctly understands everything, if he is involved in any technology of power actions - the level of personal income agrees with him, and the life of his and his family is provided very well.Films and blockbusters about the fight against corruption - this is for wide coverage of the population, a kind of publicity of the state. So it is with us, in America, and everywhere. In addition, corruption is not the case when a large business pays salary and provides personal income to a government official. Corruption is when the state official himself arbitrarily takes where he wants and when he wants, I have already said.
ON.- One more question. Will you deal with the change of leaders of the republics of Central Asia? Many of them are accused of usurping power, in the totalitarian regimes?
O. D.- Usurpation, totalitarianism - this is only from the low professionalism of the management teams, hence the accusations. Weak publicity of the state. I will repeat and clarify so that the technology of managing a society, any society, is clear. A group of people exercising power, say, in a state, makes a decision about the form of this power. Now, for example, this is a form of democracy, when the general public is convinced that they are governed by those whom they have chosen in voting booths. To some extent it is.
After the first decision, the holders of the current government decide who will be at the head of the management structure, one of them, or someone else hired. In Russia, for example, a hired manager. Obviously, Putin himself is not a businessman.After that, the decisions are formalized and implemented.
About the leaders of the Central Asian republics - we work with them. We will not directly influence the political process in adjacent states. We have already learned the right behavior from the USA, and even improved their technology.
By the way, for some reason they mistakenly believe that Russia wanted to impose Viktor Yanukovych on Ukraine as president. Of course, we are financing it, but not at all with the aim of imposing Ukraine. We are looking for adequate managers in the republic, and Yanukovych is just one of the possible candidates.
There is a completely different situation. We saw that in the territory adjacent to us are completely absent both the people of the effective business elite and the talented managers of the state apparatus. There all need to be taught. And we made a decision - not to throw this piece of sushi. After that, we began to export to the republics "universal values"; - "freedom of speech"; pluralism ";" freedom of public associations ", and so on. That same American technology, improved. All balabolki, like Savik Shuster, Serezha Dorenko - everything is there now. And so it will be until our interests reach the stage of effective governance the state of Ukraine, and our interests there are very large.Yushchenko got a little lost, - he considered that the country can be controlled from the Maidan, with the help of students processed by liberal and nationalist ideas. He is mistaken, it's obvious to a professional. We will show everyone his mistakes. You have already witnessed the confusion of Yushchenko in the Russian-Ukrainian gas war. Further more.
And so will be wherever we will see a non-constructive attitude towards our interests. Year - two - three exports of "European standards", "universal values"; - and the power there will be given in an adequate state. After that, it will only pick managers.
ON.- What about Georgia? Saakashvili? How will there be?
O. D.- Such people, with such positive energy as Mikhail Saakashvili, would be very useful to us. I would be ready to provide his personal income two to three times higher than he himself receives from all of Georgia. It is a pity, but he himself wants to be a businessman, and he misunderstands a little that the scale of Georgia is very small. Therefore, he is unlikely to agree to cooperate. - What about social upheavals in Georgia? - Social problems in business are commonplace. We must be able to work with the state apparatus and political structures - and everything can be solved.We have very good experience in solving such problems in different regions, it turned out to be particularly interesting in the city of Achinsk.
ON.- What happened there?
O. D.- One trade union leader went against the rules, and began to blackmail us - he tried to take away the alumina refinery, raise the labor movement, journalists, and so on. The price of a question from the trade union is about four million dollars. For me, the issue price is the cost of the plant. About 1.5 billion. Of course, we did not pay. This poor fellow, Smolentsy, did not take into account that Achinsk is a very criminal city. We just removed from the trade union all protection of the state for some time. And why should the government protect those who are against it? And then the crime learned about four million. Started promotions. A cowardly coward, began to run from the gangsters, and his activists hid. Some time later I went swimming in the pond, but my heart did not survive under stress — I drowned. It turned out funny. The corpse found. A trade union asset gathered - shouts, why the corpse had its entire head and neck behind a supposedly solid bruise, fingernails were torn off - it seemed to be tortured and killed. The forensic scientist worked, I myself asked Vladimir Vasilyevich Ustinov, the Prosecutor General, to check ... The result was very professional, he was reported to the public.The man was swimming, the pond is quite large, forty meters. The depth of two meters. The wind was blowing, the wave was big. The heart could not stand at the trade union. He was suffocating, but still clambered along the shore, tore off his nails. And when he was exhausted, he was beaten with a wave on a coastal stone, with his head and the back of his head. From here a hematoma on a corpse, but not from gangster tortures. All public activists made noise, accused us, three times a criminal case was opened - the result is the same. He died from a seizure.
Now we have no problems in Achinsk. Combine ours. Journalists and professors moved to other cities, ran away. So you should not bring the matter to riots, you need to act proactively. Professional work is necessary.
ON.- And how do you work in the area of "public relations" from Rusal?
O. D.- We have a good professional team. And not only from Rusal, from Bazel too. Of course, there are still a lot of people in Russia who would like to spoil our reputation. To settle accounts for the fact that we are working more successfully. Recently, for example, they found out that a number of intelligence officers had funding from international criminal circles, an order to “squeeze” money from us. Now we deal with this, we will soon calculate all the "werewolves".
ON.- By the way, considering your close relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin? How do you build work in general with the security forces, with people from the special services?
O. D.- Usually. If a person's outlook allows - we give him a job with an appropriate level of competence. The Soviet KGB had excellent groundwork for maintaining political and social stability.
ON.- And the West will not be afraid of the use of camps, psychiatric hospitals, if suddenly this happens?
O. D.- New PR technologies allow to act proactively, avoiding unnecessary scandals. The West has already swallowed Chinese Tiananmen, is investing a lot of money in a stable PRC. Swallow and new order in Russia.
ON.- The special services will not have a desire to take power under control?
O. D.- We take in the management structure only those who come from power structures who understand the priority of the financial mechanisms of power. That is, recognize our leadership. If the former GB-Schnick, even with extensive experience, does not have an outlook and does not understand that he should faithfully serve the real Russian authorities - his chances are nil. Generally peoplewho are able to build the technology of our control over society, we really need it.
- It is interesting, what do you think, what is the role of the opposition in the power structure? Do I need it at all?
O. D.- Necessarily necessary. Otherwise, the control technology of the masses becomes inferior. In Russia, for example, we managed to form non-marginal opposition groups and manage them well. Their functionaries are completely ours, and are well paid by us. There are also marginal groups - we also work with them. Dali - taken away, and so on.
ON.- Is this, if not a secret, Rogozin with “Rodina” and the Communist Party of the Russian Federation Zyuganov-Semigin?
O. D.> -You know everything yourself. Such technology is currently used in most rich countries of the West. In America, however, there are two powerful elites who have something like an agreement on the alternation of power. Outwardly, this looks like the presence of an uncontrollable opposition, but this is not so. This phenomenon is unique, and it is provided by the function of the United States as the world emission center. By the way, the beginning of the end of the USA is buried in this, and we will participate in the process of "ending world hegemony" one way or another. Without the use of all kinds of nuclear missiles.
- In your opinion, what is the role of the Public Chamber, which was recently created at the initiative of President Putin? Will it really help to clean the state apparatus in Russia?
O. D.- Of course. This is a great publicity of the state. True, inadequate people will be eliminated there for some time. Those who stay will understand - you can go here, you can not come here. Here you need to clean the army generals. Please: immediately there is a resounding case of hazing. The public chamber is right there. The generals do not even twitch. And so on.
ON.- And by the way, do you think you can relate to talented people in general? How does your power system use them?
O. D.- Very simple. Immediately and forever buy. Or, if the transaction did not take place - to destroy.
ON.- What, physically destroy?
O. D.- Well, you, it is not fashionable now. Common in this case, our technology - the destruction of moral. I have already told you why we use obedient former specialists from the KGB and other special services. The morally destroyed adversary proves our strength and our infinite possibilities. Such a poor fellow shouts louder, asks for help - the better. He shouts - and nobody hands him.And it becomes funny. The rest of them see if it stands against us or not.
Vaughn, Yushchenko is gradually becoming ridiculous. Especially after we agreed with Yulia Tymoshenko. By the way, she is quite an adequate and professional politician who helped us at the Nikolaev Alumina Refinery. Now Yushchenko has no choice but to travel around Europe and ask for support. The result of his efforts is simply ridiculous - they fawn in front of us from Europe, and more and more every day. The time will come - all interesting factories, all the transport of Ukraine will be ours. That's for sure. That's how the game is done.
ON.- You have a tough position.
O. D.- A tough game is a tough position. Otherwise it is impossible.
ON.- A little more about the economy. Tell me, is the ruble zone - is it real for the CIS?
O. D.- Of course. The dollar is now in big trouble. We cannot drop it at all, but there is no filling, the emission limits are enormously exceeded. The euro is incomplete, as the European Union cannot play on emissions in the same way as the USA does with its backup system. So inside the CIS, we need a ruble. With one caveat - those who have constructive power will be allowed into the ruble zone.
ON.- Can you give an example of this approach?
O. D.- Of course. Armenia. There, enterprises are transferred to our property, and good guarantees for business. The power structure is well formed for this reason.
ON.- Is it possible to summarize that our Asian republics have good chances of attracting Russian business?
O. D.- Can.
ON.- Thank you for the interesting interview. This exclusive information.
O. D.- I ask you - this is all for your VIP-newsletter. Do not translate it in newspapers or on the Internet. Other questions and answers will be relevant to them.
ON.- We promise. Our subscribers are well-known people, and everyone is too well aware of the issues of government and business. I think they will be grateful for your frankness.
O. D.- All the best.